We know that some of you are going to post comments that this logo represents a failure, or proof that crowdsourcing or our model doesn’t work or won’t work. You’ll go on and on about how terrible my metaphors are or how much bullshit you smell or how ghastly our taste in design is. To which we say, have fun with that. And enjoy our comment section as your commentary platform. We have lots of server space for you. Because whether you think we’re being defensive or not, the truth is we understand you. And we love you. But we cannot control you. So we say knock yourselves out. And we’ll see you in Cannes.
To us, and to those who we believe are positive-minded, forward-thinking people, what we’d like you to know and care about regarding our logo is this: We had a great experience crowdsourcing this fucker. It was wonderful, actually. And what it proved to us, was that this blessed methodology with a geeky name (thanks Mr. Howe) just flat works. And it will only get better. The greatest thing that came from this logo assignment was proof that, via crowdsourcing, it is quite possible that the best talent, much like cream in a bucket (there’s another metaphor for you haters to pick apart, enjoy), rises to the top.
This logo was designed by Mr. Andrea Bigiarini (@norbu56 on Twitter). Andrea – or “B.Ja” as his friends call him – lives just outside Florence, Italy, in a town called Impruenta on the Chianti hills with his wife Stefania and daughter Francescaa. B.Ja is a graphic designer of the highest caliber. A craftsman whose father is a painter, Andrea has been designing since 1978 and “grew up around canvas, pencils, oil and turpentine.” He is the sort of artist who sketches first, goes to the computer second. He was studying at the Florence Lyceum of The Arts at age 14 and soon thereafter went to work on his own dime at Leonardo Baglioni’s studio – Leonardo represented the “new wave” in graphic design in Florence at the time and worked with Superstudio, Roberto Magris and Adolfo Natalini. And we only found out these details well after we awarded “norbu56″ the top prize of five (the others being pretty outstanding designers as well).
Through email correspondence across the pond this week, I was overjoyed to learn more about him. And thought you might want to know more as well. Andrea is a creative soul. Above being a world-class designer, he is also a biker and a musician, founder of the local ukelele uprising ( http://ukuleleitalia.ning.com/ ), author and illustrator of “The Xutan Papers” and upcoming “The Seven Magnificent Dwarves.” When asked about those who say that crowdsourcing is bad for design due to myriad reasons stated in the no-spec movement, he answers “I think that competition is part of human nature and competition makes things better. Crowdsourcing is the future and is a good way to work during a global economic crisis.” That’s Andrea Bigiarini. A man who likes quantum physics and sometimes feels like the Schrodinger Cat. A man with a take on life that we could all do well to emulate. “Love makes you create, hate makes you destroy. I love to love, makes you fly, is a kind of very good magic.”
What strikes us most about being lucky enough to find a talent like Andrea via crowdSPRING and crowdsourcing is that it illustrates perfectly that for those who wish to embrace this inevitability, it can work beautifully. We find it so poignant and magnificent and heartwarming that a man with the utmost of traditional design backgrounds has chosen to give these newfangled and much deliberated creative platforms a shot. Instead of lamenting their evilness, with an open mind and heart, he’s simply decided to jump in and give it a try. We’re very glad he did. And we’re hoping more talented people embrace his mindset. Thank you, Mr. Bigiarini. And thank you crowdSPRING.
Here’s to a beautiful future.
Love it. So not 2009. Complicated, breathing industrial revolution, strong in b/w.
You lucky bastards.
John:
I’m just looking at the logo and giving first reaction. Like it. Unexpected. Strong. Best of all like the two lines: Power to the brand. Power to the people. And like that they appear in that order. I think you’ll have a few challenges on your business cards and other apps, but it says what it needs to say and incorporates a lot of info at once. Won’t get confused with Apple’s logo, but then again, that’s a good thing. Power to you.
I think the logo is pretty cool. I think it’s interesting you went negative instead of just rocking out your new logo. This thing has just started. Don’t get so defensive.
make it into a shoulder patch and wear it everywhere. also, send me one.
How many people spent hours working on something for this project and didn’t get a dime, didn’t get a mention, and didn’t get anything but a “sorry, try again”? The least you could do is publicize the people who are so desperate for work that they gave you their time and their ideas, things that are actually worth quite a bit even when they’re wrong. What we do for a living is totally subjective, all you’re doing is taking advantage of people who haven’t found someone to accept their work yet, and tossing the others aside. Thanks for opening the next digital sweatshop. Enjoy your profits.
Well, you can try and diffuse criticism all you want, but this is by no means a great logo. The tiny type contained in it is barely readable at the enlarged size shown in your post. I’d love to see it work on a business card. It also manages to cram 4 taglines (or is that 3?) into one logo. If it’s at all indicative of the clarity of the work to come, I’d say there are maybe too many cooks in the kitchen (or pirates helming the wheel?).
Crowdsourcing is great and I believe that.
But I also feel depending on the “crowdsourced” project companies prosper far greater than the designers (if designers are involved).
From the company perspective: you paid and you got the finished creative with many options and are pleased with the results. Awesome!
From the designers perspective: many (i don’t know how many joined your project) hours were spent between everyone and will never be reciprocated for their work, whether good or bad except for the chosen one(s).
It’s easy to see why this is appealing to companies but how appealing do you think it is to a designer trying to make a living? One certainly can’t keep doing contests in hopes of winning the race.
I surely see this evolving more from its current state as crowdsourcing continues on.
Love the logo, love the story. Heck, I even love the haters. Big wet beefy brammosmooch to all of you. I want the T-shirt.
God bless the flames.
wouild make a great black t-shirt, wear it with pride
Don’t wanna be a kiss ass, ’cause I’d love to work for you. But this shit is awesome. I love the 2 slogans (I think they’re 2, because I read Power to the Brand Power to the People as one). Love it ’cause it’s everything that should be wrong in a “modern” logo. I like that it’ll have to be printed huge, always.
This logo shows that you really are committed to change stuff, kudos.
PD. You should make the vector file available so we can print t-shirts.
This logo now feels like it could be on the side of that tank (small type issues aside). Whereas the earlier ones didn’t have that vibe.
Crowdsource argument aside, feels like too much micromanaging of entries was occurring early. GIGO being what it is, people basically returned what you asked for.
If crowdsourcing is to work, it should have at its core the notion that an idea comes from anyone, anywhere—without too much client input. (Initially, at least.)
That fit on a tank direction was a nice, general inspiration to work from. Just saying, this is all an interesting experiment to watch, but maybe with the next project, open it up more and let what’s in peoples’ minds show through as much as what you need to get back.
You should crowdsource yourself a new personality and maybe tweet that chip off your shoulder while you’re at it . You sound bitter instead of excited about a venture you’re really confident in. Also, I love the Cannes reference. Shows just how far the ad business has come.
Santo, wow!!
How many interviews have you ever gone on? Hopefully you’ve put some time – blood, sweat, tears – into learning about the company you want to work for prior to the interview. And what happens when you don’t get the job? Does the company ALWAYS write you back to say, “sorry, try again”? DOUBT IT! Do they announce to the world, “John Smith, is now Creative Director of ABC Agency. But, we want to thank Tony Santo for being a runner up. In fact, Tony, here’s a couple $100 bills for your effort.” DOUBT IT!
I give out ideas everyday. Lots of people give out ideas. Are they always compensated. DOUBT IT!
It’s a good logo, not great, but good. And for anyone who designs in the crowdsourced community, they know what they’re getting into. But hopefully, they feel challenged to try and create something that just. Might. Make it. To the top.
I find myself torn. Torn between the passion I have for developing new models, especially those that empower communities to create, and the reality of crowd sourcing design work. Unfortunately I have to agree entirely with the comments of Tony Santo. The reality of working this way is that the more people (usually desperate for work and payment) who are involved in crowd sourcing a logo design, the more losers there are. If there was some way for the whole community to benefit, this model might end up being something better than a creative sweatshop. I hope you guys are keen to explore how the model might work for all and not just for your bottom line.
How may other logos were sent in? Where are they? How much did you pay for this one? Are you going to be transparent about all this grand experiment? Hopefully so, as the attention will do you good.
Best of luck … You may need it, actually.
@iboy
Crowdsourcing design is no more than getting free or highly discounted work. This is worse than spec work and against AIGA standards.
Crowdsourcing insights I get. But not design or strategy.
Sorry.
Amazing, love it.
I forgive you.
Great looking logo…
but…
Spec work does not equal crowdsourcing.
I find your first paragraph representative that you don’t plan to listen and evolve. It is just building an army that will cause a shitstrorm every time you land a client.
Evolve. Don’t call spec work something noble.
I am anxious to see where this agency will go. I think croudsourcing could be good to bring fresh ideas into the same ol same ol. It’s hard to change an industry, but to stay relevant people need to be open to new ideas and not be pigeonholed into something that’s been working for years only because that’s all that everyone has known. The client thing might be hard to work around though, they like to change stuff… but you guys have some clout, they’ll probably trust you… (wouldn’t that be nice!) Change is good. Good for you guys. Way to put yourself out there. It’s always nice to see bravery.
And to Concerned Reader: Don’t be mean.
Also, I would also like a shirt, I’d rock it.
This is brilliant! Power to the brand!
I think crowd sourcing helps newbies jump start into the field. If you are well established and feel like your “above” crowd sourcing, then…. don’t submit work.
All in all, this is a great design. Very epic!
Good luck to all!
Eric,
c’mon – interviews? that’s your analogy? are designers in the business of doing interviews? give out ideas? what? i bet you wouldn’t be giving them out so freely if your vocation was selling your thinking and your ideas.
here is the real question – will Victors & Spoils be participating in crowdsourced projects? as a client, can i get you guys to do spec work, along with other “agencies,” for a project i am managing? if i choose your agency’s submission, then you’ll get paid. how does that sound?
for a design business, spec work is not a practical business model. there can be instances of doing spec here and there to pitch a potential client – but only done so in a very carefully calculated manner. the risk/reward ratio being substantially favorable.
no offense to the designer, but this isn’t a logo. it is a t-shirt design.
“Power to the people” is in-fact a misnomer. i would say it is more of a “Power to the contest holder” – just saying.
Can we please stop using the term crowd-sourcing. It’s pathetic. It’s like the term ‘fluid-consuming’ (drinking), or ‘leg-alternating’ (walking) or ‘oxgygen-intaking’ (breathing). It’s just a stupid alternative TERM, not a new CONCEPT. Concepts are where innovation lies, not in terms.
And it equates to free pitching, which also a very old concept. Designers have been taken advantage of for years through free-pitching. Spending days doing unpaid work which ultimately does nothing but damage for most. There’s really not much not celebrate. Good for you though for finding an opportunity to exploit yet another marketing angle to the naive and blind, to try and build a business on the ’spider-entrapment-device’.
Woops, I mean ‘the web’.
I don’t like the logo, big deal. V&S does and that’s what’s important. I think it’s going to be problematic every step of the way. I think it’s boring as hell for a really interesting company (or interesting concept at least). I hope they use it for an hour or so and then move on. But this, again, is only my opinion.
However this is where I get tangled up – in opinions. A great idea will come to life with the guidance of an opinionist, a great creative director. Evan Fry is in a difficult position. He has to learn to be a creative director. One that he isn’t right now. He has to creative direct a mob and make it count for ALL involved. Simple, clear, smart, relevant direction, otherwise the mob is just wasting the time they’re already willing to give for a shot at glory. He can’t devalue that time even more with cloudy direction. I wish you luck Mr. Fry, you’re not in Kansas anymore.
I love your logo!
Keep up the great work, you deserve all that is good and kind, because you are!
And so, crowdsourcing breeds a crowded logo. Evan, you, as a creative with some experience, should recognize this. But since you apparently don’t, allow me to explain:
1) You have a logo with two taglines (power to the brand, power to the people) and an explanation (solving problems via communal creativity). Now, to quote Ronnie Van Zandt, tell me true, would you have approved this logo back at Crispin, where Alex Bogusky, if he still bothers to come work, would have crowned you with his ’so-bored’ and shouted something like, “Fry! WHAT? THE? FUCK?” Save it, I’ll answer for you, “Let me crowdsource that, dude.
Jeff Shattuck
http://www.cerebellumblues.com (if you visit, listen to the songs!)
Ruffling a few feathers? Who are all these people who are afraid of
competition? Either opt in, or opt out. Competition is a privilege.
Hey John,
Nice logo…black is my favorite color
Very new age what you are doing…changing the world kind of stuff.
Power to you and the people behind Victors and Spoils.
Cheers,
Sunil
Re logo: looks like typical client interference trying to squeeze too much info in a small area… ‘make the logo bigger’ i hear you crying out
it’s more like a giant flag on a union march defending workers rights… how ironic!
BUT maybe this is exactly what you were after?
it will work great on a tee shirt, as a screen saver, as a poster, as a belt buckle etc. i’m surprised you don’t have either a) a merchandise section (with profit share with designer) or even better b) a logo tool kit to let everyone have fun with it and publicise you (a type of crowd sourced fan mash up).
It’ll be interesting to see how this works for new/unfamiliar product launches and new brands as the ‘in the same room’ time needed to openly discuss creating a new campaign and it’s strategy may be seriously lacking. The crowd sourcing brief for Peperami (UK) on Ideabounty made sense, it is a very well established popular brand with a comic tone of voice that everyone just gets… no real special insights and strategy/planning were required… a bit of a no brainer.
I’d be interested to see how this potential barrier is dealt with and perhaps this model has some limitations that a physical agency can much better deal with? Will crowd source specific agencies end up being limited to working on the Peperami model? taking on the familiar and just doing a bit of window dressing? I guess this is worrying for trad agencies as far as retaining clients after delivering well thought out strategy and creative… perhaps this will make old agencies think even more long term strategically speaking rather than be happy flipping burgers at rip off prices?
This may go full circle… the trad ad agencies will end up as intellectual hot houses of strategy and awesome creative (think Michelin starred restaurants), and the crowd sourced agencies may just end up flipping the familiar safe burgers that don’t require this deep level of ‘face to face’ strategic brand development. (burger van at festival)
just thinking out loud… not sure how i feel about it all, the jury’s out, but like the rebellious aspect!
good luck
chris
So what are you going to do with this logo when it has to be used on a business card or letterhead? Just for fun scale it down to .75″, and you’ll see what I mean. It is totally illegible.
Grade: F
Interesting article, thanks for posting
Looks like retro logo. Love it!
Personally – I liked the logo. Then, for some reason, it made me think of Ministry and that whole industrial thing. I waivered. Then I decided I liked it anyway.
For those that are complaining about the sweatshop aspects of crowdsourcing…there were some really interesting talks on just that at the New School, NYC recently.
My attitude is that no one locked these designers in a room or even strapped them to a chair in front of their applemacs with an explicit instruction to design a logo for Victors&Spoils. They chose to take a chance.
One won. The others didn’t.
Personally I think it’s a great logo. A blend of old fashioned craftmanship and latter day cool which ably demonstrates the power of crowd sourcing to douse out hidden springs of talent. What’s not so appealing is the defensive tone of voice you have chosen to adopt in your last two posts. As experienced marketeers you must know that every word authored by a new brand contributes to its personality. So why is it that what should be a genuine people’s rebublic sounds more and more like a military junta? If you want to fight a war, join the army. If you want people to trust you enough to send you their ideas on spec, why not win them over with charm? Many of the creatively gifted people you’re trying to attract will be working outside advertising precisely because they want to practise their craft skills without this kind of willy waving.
I liked it until I read what you had to say
This is an illustration of some sort (very “Sisters of Mercy” cover art, nothing wrong with that if you ask me) but definitely not a logo. How is this going to be recognizable across several channels? this has more reproduction problems than a radioactive lab rat. Maybe missing a bit of craftsourcing.
There’s a line missing in the half circle at the bottom.
As an aside, I think crowdsourcing is an effed-up way to run a creative business. Whatever happened to hiring great people and paying them? Is that notion old fashioned in the era of Twitter and Facebook? I’ve been a freelance copywriter since 1992. I’ve paid my mortgage and raised two kids solely on my ability to work and get paid. I don’t know a single credible creative mind in the business who would work for free. What does that leave you? Wannabes and hacks. You get what you don’t pay for. G.
I actually like your new logo; very Victorian, machine age, mysterious. Congratulations to the designer.
Too bad for all the other people who submitted work and got their hopes up. Your model, such that it is, is not crowdsourcing. Not even a little bit. But, I digress.
Let me join others who have already given you this good advice. Lose the defensive, arrogant attitudes. You are digging yourself deeper and deeper in a hole.
And, the Cannes reference truly was classic, as Concerned Reader noted. Way to really revolutionize the ad business.
One more thing…I can barely read what I am typing. Get a larger comment type, people!
Looks nice, but it’s not a logo. Again, the design profession has been devalued through ignorance. Here are the biggest issues:
1. It’s not a real logo. It’s a masthead. Inspired by packaging design circa early 1900’s.
2. It’s obviously trendy, with maybe 2-5 years life expectancy (max) before it looks dated like the logos from the matrix-inspired 90’s look now.
3. Because it’s tapping right into the latest trend of ‘artisinal’ blue collar chic. Examples, applied to other agencies:
http://www.goodnessmfg.com/
http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2009/06/15/story4.html
Good agencies, but same mistake.
4. It’s not a logo to last. These are things designers must know. It’s a waste of money, time and branding to not be able to create a timeless logo that lasts and can be updated with minor tweaks.
5. It also doesn’t reduce when needed like a button if you ever do need one. Who knows what your company might become later on? Like, when the crowdsourcing buzzword fades away?
Hire a real designer next time. It really is worth it.
Yeah I agree, I would like to see the other logos. I really don’t like this logo. If you are the new thing on the block, new ideas, new strategy to crowdsource design to keep costs cheap. Why would you brand yourself with a turn of the century look and feel and I am talking last century, lol. I really think this is the wrong direction. I guess with crowdsourcing you can always try again since it is so cheap to do so.
Here’s an idea. Let this community decide what your logo should be! Pick your top 20 and we can work our way to the top number one pick. Take it one more level and crowdsource your executive level decision making. Seriously. It would be free, no cost to you, people like free.
someone call Shepard Fairey, they’ve been playing at the Xerox again with his work…
it might work on a t-shirt large (lots of requests for one, better hop to), but as a small mark on a site, card, whatever… your tiny type is a tad too precious and will be rendered illegible. writing is mediocre, “power to the brand, power to the people”?
which one? empower the brand and it will convince the people (by good product offerings and good messaging)… empower people, and they will judge the brand on its own merits, regardless of what advertising tells them to do…
oh, and forget the subline: ” solving problems via communal creativity” waaaay too long, waaay too tiny and waaay too untested a concept to convince any client of efficacy. it will never be seen unless you do 60 sheet billboards somewhere.
overall, too many words for a logo in the true sense of the discipline, and way too detailed to be effective, but then again, you only paid out, what, $2500.00? and this was the best you got? a rather poor argument for crowdsourcing.
don’t get me wrong, i do wish you well, but (and it’s only been a few weeks, i know) but there has been no real definition of ‘the plan’ other than some emotional white-washing of how great crowdsourcing is… as ‘brandmentalist’ points out, this is just another sweat-shop environment with no real social value, there can only be 1 winner and the rest get to say, what? “can’t wait to try again!”?
at some point, people will want to talk to people, you will be too busy to handle all the calls and clients will want to meet and discuss their real needs and problems with real people in real time, over lunch or dinner… we are social animals and herds are how we interact… real herds, not virtual ones…
My 17 month old daughter LOVES it.
I like your logo. And I like your company motto.
Congrats.
~Rob
I’m a big fan of the pioneering approach V&S are taking. More please.
As for the crowdsourcing debate, I think we’re all familiar with the for/against models, so I’ll move beyond that.
What always seems to get lost in crowdsourcing (for logos in particular) is the brief. I doubt many of the critics/fans commenting here even read the brief.
I read the brief AFTER seeing the winning logo because I was slightly underwhelmed by the result. I think it is beautifully designed, great typography etc, but it bore little relation to the utterly pioneering, disruptive model V&S is taking.
But after reading the brief, I see exactly why this one won. It followed all the cues and clues. Except, I would argue, the requirement of ‘turning the industry on its head’.
If you wanted to turn things on their head, a traditional, historical, ‘badge’-type logo doesn’t seem to quite fit.
Anyway, I think all this goes to a question at the heart of the crowdsourcing model. With less dynamic interaction/collaboration/communication, the significance of the ’static’ brief is massively heightened. So it needs to be spot on. And not like a traditional agency approach.
Eric, wow!!
APPLYING for a job and not getting it is NOT analogous to working for free. What did you get your nephew for his birthday, a happy meal?
[...] winning design is actually not so bad, kind of interesting in a retro way. But the process was not crowdsourcing [...]
Interesting article, thanks for posting
Oh, goodie for you. Pat yourselves on the back.
You’ve finally figured out for yourselves that any designer worth their salt would do this work for nothing because we LOVE doing it. I thought we all found our passion for design back in school.
You can see that passion in the final logo you chose. Mr. Bigiarini crafted a fine logo (assuming readability was intentionally compromised). The client is happy with it and it stands apart in a crowd. I also happen to agree with your belief that crowdsourcing is a good methodology for certain projects. Crowdsourcing is indeed the future’s business model.
However, I strongly disagree with your incentive model. You purposefully and openly, flaunt restrictions against spec work. So while you get a logo for a pittance and a blog post, please tell me how much you would charge a client for a similar service? You can’t honestly ask anyone to believe that you are accepting as payment a blog post in lieu of a full paycheck?!
You are a smart group of people, but please do something worthwhile and figure out how to make it work economically for everyone involved, not just yourselves and the top few entries. Most designers I know would be happy to work for free provided their design tools were free (I mean you Adobe & Apple!), their school loans repaid, if their mortgage was nonexistent, and so on. Make that happen and you will really have an original idea worth talking about.
It reminded me of the Jack Daniels logo – maybe coz it’s white on black, big & bold – very masculine! I’d love to wear this as a T-shirt. Not sure how effective it would be on a business card with the small type. I love the font type-face that you guys used for “Victor & Spoils” .. I would just keep that on black in order to simplify the logo further.
I joined V&S a day after the call for entries had closed, so I wasn’t able to submit my designs. Lookin’ forward to the next project.
For those participants who are bitter that they didn’t get selected, I’d say if that’s the attitude you have, then don’t bother submitting your work in the first-place. Everything we do in our line of work is subjective – you can’t please everyone. Remember the saying, “CREAM ALWAYS RISES TO THE TOP .. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, SHIT FLOATS” .. cheer up, that’s crowd-sourcing for ya