Hello and welcome to Victors & Spoils. Just who in the hell are we? We’re the world’s first creative (ad) agency built on crowdsourcing principles. And our goal is to provide businesses with a better way to solve their marketing, advertising and product-design problems by engaging world’s most talented creatives.
Why are we doing this? Super question. The way we see it, companies need an alternative to both current ad agencies as well as current crowdsourcing platforms. One that offers the strategic direction, engagement and relationship management that agencies deliver today, but one that also delivers the engagement, cultural relevance, results and good ol’ ROI that crowdsourcing (if managed and directed well) can deliver.
Crowdsourcing? Really? Yes. Current factors such as radical transparency, the consumer’s demand to be more involved and a growing cost consciousness regarding clients’ budgets have all made crowdsourcing especially timely for today’s marketers. But it’s not all roses yet. The crowdsourcing paradigm can be pretty unruly for most clients. The number of possible solutions created and the effort to keep things on strategy for a brand can be overwhelming.
Enter a new agency model. Victors & Spoils (that’s us). We feel like an ad agency. We work like a crowdsourcing platform. And at the core of our agency is the V&S creative department (which we’re currently building, do join). As you might have guessed, it’s not your typical creative department made up of art directors and copywriters. It’s one in which everyone from creatives to strategists to creative directors to interactive geniuses to producers come together to solve strategic problems. A global digital community where anyone who wants to participate can. A creative department whose members will not only be rewarded for the solutions they develop (both individually and as a group) but also for participating in the community itself, as well as for helping others develop their skills and talent. And in an effort to guide this participation, members of our creative department will earn a ranking (the V&S Reputation Score) that will help determine a share of the revenue from each project.
And that’s basically who we are – Victors & Spoils on day one. It feels fantastic to finally be out of the closet. We would love your comments and ideas as we do this. But it’s already full-on. The throttle is pinned, we’re talking to clients and building as we go. We hope you’ll join us and wish us well. We hope you’ll follow us on that Twitter thing. We hope you’ll read John Winsor’s blog post at www.johnwinsor.com and we hope you’re ready to watch an industry change. Thank you for reading this.
Godspeed, John Winsor. And for God’s sake, please don’t change your site design, it’s plain wonderful.
Count me in. I am a Graphic Designer living in Seattle, WA, who creates in many different ways. I design, illustrate, write, cook, sew, hike & camp, work-out, and forage for wild mushrooms. If you think I can assist your crowd-sourcing venture, contact me back.
Wow: exciting!
I hope you’ll get a wonderful into unknown land.
Will follow your explorations with interest: good luck!
Great idea. In fact, its the same thoughts and premise we built and launched http://opensrcadvertising.com on.
Good luck
Just read this wonderful article and just want to say if you need anyone to make coffee and bring you donuts I’m the one!’ I wish you all nothing but success in all you do. Sounds like you are on your way!
CONGRATULATIONS!
You have a good attitude (bet you haven’t heard that a lot of times in your lives). Hope you have the right stuff. Have a feeling you might. Take care of each other — the buddy system goes a long way, particularly when the grease in the ball bearings of life runs out, and the gears keep turning. Remember to have fun along the way.
Good Luck John. Looking forward to see where this goes and I’m increasingly happier for having added to you the3six5 crowdsource project.
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This post was mentioned on Twitter by msheedy: This sounds great: “Who wants to change this thing called the ad industry?” http://tinyurl.com/yjpd8jf (via @VictorsnSpoils @BBHLabs)…
So how does the pay structure here actually work?
We’re inventing it as we go but if you look, for example, at the existing platforms like crowdSPRING, they have their own pay structure which we blew out to reward top 5 places. When we have our own platform up and running it will be similar, plus much more.
Good luck and congrats! Great concept, go change the industry. Awesomeness.
Hey LISA PAGE— would you say that these wild mushrooms you forage in the northwest for would make “magical” pizza toppings? because some people must be “hallucinating” to think most mushrooms are good. so i’d be willing to take a “trip” all the way out there to get some of these mushrooms from you, if you catch my drift.
So, let me get this straight: you’re going to change advertising by staffing your business with a core creative group and freelancing the rest? How on earth is this different from every other boutique shop started since the 60s? Also, I don’t buy “mob rule” as a philosophy for coming up with cool and risky ideas. Nor do I buy the notion of the mob presenting to the king, and having the king call all the shots. Nor do buy “open source” creative development, if people outside the core are expected to drive the thinking that differentiates you guys. Finally, let’s say you crowd-source 10 freelancers for a project and these guys all normally charge $1000 a day. How do you pay them? Do they work for free unless their idea wins? You’ve got some explaining to do.
Jeff
ARGH. I can’t take it. What V&S is doing is just so… well, it’s a helluva profanity.
To all you out-of-work and student ad folk out there, understand what V&S is doing: asking you to work for nothing unless they decide you “win”, in which case they reserve all rights to change what you create, own what you create and can solely determine the value of what you create. Read the contract:
http://www.crowdspring.com/contract/independent_contractor_agreement/?projectid=
For those not familiar with “work for hire” (it appears in the contact) this is what is used in the music industry when you want to make goddamn sure that if you bring in a guitar player and he comes up with a KILLER riff that MAKES your song, he gets his fee and nothing else. I use “work for hire” too, I’m not gonna BS you, but I also make it a point to share writer credit when a musician contributes at a level that I believe changes my composition. Barry Gordy of Motown also used work for hire and if you know anything about Motown, you know that Barry was a bastard. Anyway, V&S goes a step further: you don’t get a fee! Unbelievable.
Please, please, please don’t fall for this. If you participate, know what you are doing: you are entering a sweepstakes, except judge and jury (V&S) is not bound to pay you anything, even if you win. Now, they most likely will pay you something, but remember, they could pay you $1 and easily satisfy the contract you agree to when you work for them. Damn, this wouldn’t bug me so much if I didn’t think the people we’re willingly and knowingly attempting to benefit AT NO COST from all the unemployed adfolk out there.
Not cool.
Jeff Shattuck
jeffshattuck@gmail.com (email me if you think I’m full of it!)
You guys are kidding right?
You are not changing an industry you are helping hammer one more nail in its coffin. For years we fought the idea of advertising by committee and you are legitimizing it.
You are not calling creatives with spirit you are calling all those willing to be underpaid while you guys reap the rewards.
As John Lennon said, “How do you sleep at night?”
I am truly excited by the infinite possibilities V & S can bring to this staid world. I am so tempted to even try it with my agency here in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Frankly, this is the way ad agencies of tomorrow will run. Kind thoughts & best wishes. Let’s make a dent in the ad realm.
This quote I really like and find appropriate today, from friend Bill Roden at Sterling Rice Group: “I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone… they will be forced to deal with pain.” – James Baldwin
Thanks for your comments Jeff. It’s lively and awesome and we love your passion and typing skills. Yes, we have a plan. But not so sure that we owe anyone an explanation. Please just be patient. Or ignore us crazy loonies here as we try to do something that will satisfy all and shape perhaps a way for everyone to be happy (who knows, it’s possible and who knows, we might have a plan). Oh and we’ll respond to your email inquiring about working with us sometime very soon. Thanks buddy.
Typing skills? Wow, you are a skilled communicator and have quickly confirmed my assumptions about your company in just two words. Nice. But thanks for posting my comments.
Jeff
Can y’all tell I’m unemployed (brain injury, long story)? Anyway, Evan is correct: I emailed VS after reading about them. Then I read more and emailed them again saying I wanted nothing to do with them.
And all you potential clients out there: ask yourself if you want to work for a business led by a guy like Evan, someone who will get personal at the drop of a hat?
Okay, I’ve made my point, had my fun, I’m done. Good luck, VS. I mean that, I want to see advertising change, and once your plan is public, perhaps I’ll eat my words.
Jeff
How did Evan get personal with you? All he said was that he appreciated your point of view, but to wait until they revealed the whole story about how they’re going to work before judging them. I believe that’s a fair request because they aren’t going to put every single thing that comes across their desk into crowdSPRING.
These guys are some of the smartest and most well respected people in the ad business, cut them some slack until you know the whole story.
Other variant is possible also
First, thanks for the opportunity to post on your site. Great transparency. But you know critique like Jeff’s above also comes with real transparency.
So I don’t think you should lambast the ‘crazies’ or ‘haters.’ I don’t think people are crazy or hating necessarily. They’re criticizing. And you’ve given them a platform to do so (it’s not just a branding element).
The crowdsourced agency idea sounds great. It’s especially buzzworthy right now. But you have to pay market rate for quality ideas. For great ones, well developed, that’s what, at least 6k per month? If someone’s not getting paid at least that for their work, then that’s not really fair compensation in regards to the market, right? Afterall, how much fee will you charge clients? What will you each walk with after paying out the crowdsourced workers?
All in all, it’s an intriguing idea. But just because technology makes crowdsourcing seem wildly easy nowadays (you might say the US constitution was originally crowdsourced), it doesn’t mean that it’s the right model. It’s a tool, a powerful tool, but not a way of innovating and creating consistent quality. The industry is in flux right now, things are evolving just as they have always evolved. And they evolved into the way they are for a reason.
Things need to be shaken up, yes. But shouldn’t the focus should be on finding the real, rare talent and honing it, rather than casting ever-larger nets to wade through hit-or-miss mediocrity in hopes of scoring the big one?
Just my 2 cents. I wish you professional success regardless.
Sorry, Jeff and a few others have called it right. You’re attempting to legitimize crowdsourcing? You’re claiming this is the ‘way of the future’? This is the way of shooting yourself and your design colleagues in the foot.
I’m appalled, frankly.
And no, I don’t want to be part of your ‘brilliant new idea.’ Hardly.
Good luck.
Oh, and I just checked out your ‘logo competition’ for your own brand. So you’re going to pay $2400 tops for your identity? And that will be split amongst 5 people? Shame on you, honestly.
After seeing the totally SAFE choices you made in the CS contest, in which I participated, but you lacked the decency to even rate the last six of my submissions, I want nothing to do with your organization…you say you want to start a revolution & you include that in your brief, and then like a big nutless wuss choose a bunch of non-threatening, safe, albeit beautiful, work. Revolution my ass. No thanks Evan, take me off your mailing list.
Travis Keenan Tiffin
hello victors et al,
in a somewhat circuitous manner, i happened across your logo contest, then upon this site.
i’ve read the spiel here, and gather you’ve set out to break the status quo, engage raw creativity from an infinite source, and leverage these assets to provide (otherwise unavailable?) services to clients?
i am guessing your current site is speaking to mostly the potential bandwagoneers, rather than potential clients. i’m scratching my head, because somehow i feel left out. left out of what i expected to be an engaging and compelling call to arms to join your rock opera. i don’t hear the roar.
i have participated in crowdspring and 99designs contests, and have personal stories and a seemingly well-formed disposition on the whole spec work concept. i’ve chosen not to participate in these contest sites after a lot of contemplation. not because of the ethical implications—but not to overlook them—rather the lack of satisfactory process that the conceptual model doesn’t feature. creative work, FIRST AND FOREMOST, is all about dialog, communication, guidance and expectations. after that, then concepting, design, war-room fights, whiteboards etc etc.
so, out of curiosity, i found the “first(ad) agency utilizing crowdsourcing” concept at least interesting enough to dig deeper. sorry to say, i don’t get it. why have a “creative department” if you plan to crowdsource? or are you intending to build your own inventory of creative contributors for client work?
as a creative (16+ years), i am not convinced. and as a potential client, i do not think i would be convinced.
in the agency business, i have hired outside freelancers many, many times to work on concepts for a project. the idea being that maybe something they come up with will spark an idea—or potentially be the final outcome— all good input for the better cause. these folks are ALWAYS paid for their time. i’ve been the person who hired these people, and have been the person hired by agencies in this manner.
agencies and designers enumerate their efforts as related to TIME. we get paid for time. agencies bill by the hour. most employees have an 85% billable goal per month (creative department). so this new concept abandons this method? or is V&S still billing by the hour, but not passing along any of those revenues to freelancers who contribute their time to the project?
is this the groundbreaking, paradigm-shifting conceptual model? is this like selling wheelbarrows to the gold prospectors instead of mining for gold?
maybe i don’t fit the demographics or profile of a perfect candidate, however, i do feel i have enough insight to evaluate the potential of a business/conceptual model. at least on face value.
this email is not intended to be adversarial at all, just hoping to get you to put your cards on the table.
thanks.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/triscoffin
Serious question about your business model.
Your first project had 1,118 entries. And after browsing them, quite a few were awesome. 5 people got paid. So 1,113 entries went unpaid (most designers entered more than once I would think). One person got a measly $100. And the winner got $1,000 still probably less than they would have been paid in a regular gig.
So the question is, how long will people be willing to work like this? If a designer works on five projects and never sees a dime, or very little money, will they work on a sixth? Especially against such stiff competition. Eventually, and I think soon, the numbers and quality will diminish.
You might respond: it’s up to each individual contributor. But I think this should be a serious concern for your business as quantity and quality is what should set you guys apart.
Also what happens when the economy improves and people go back to work? Your pool of workers would shrink even more.
I imagine there will always be ad school and design students who figure they’re not getting paid anyways, but how long can you survive on student labor?
Clearly I’m hypothesizing here, but I really hope you’ve at least considered these possibilities.